Blind Loyalty. Challenge with Aaron Dauphinee

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Hi there, I'm Amanda Cromhoe from Truth. Welcome to the Blind Laugherty

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Challenge. We interview

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world experts in loyalty blindly. We're hoping to create insight, spontaneity

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and a lot of

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fun through the challenge. The challenge is about promoting the Blind Laugherty

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Trust

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and my book called Blind Laugherty, 101 Laugherty Concepts Radically Simplified

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. All

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profits from the book go towards the trust. We hope you enjoy the Blind Laug

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herty Challenge.

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So again we are here on the Blind Laugherty Challenge and next to me is Erin D

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auphinny,

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Chief Marketing Officer of the Wise Marketier Group. Needs absolutely no

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introduction, but

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Erin, welcome to the Blind Laugherty Challenge. Hi, thanks, Venna. I appreciate

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you having

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me on today. Yeah, I'm really excited. You're no stranger to podcast or webin

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ars, so I think

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this is going to be super easy for you. So let's see if we can make it a little

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bit tricky.

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Don't go too tricky. I've had a talk already.

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So in chapter 72 I actually quote the Wise Marketier in retail beauty loyalty

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programs.

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So in your opinion, which retail industry do you think is most receptive, most

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responsive

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to loyalty? So the retail obviously spans a number of

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spectrums in terms of how you define it and I think that's sometimes part of

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the issue

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with our industry is as we get into these sub-segments and we don't realize

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actually

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retail is any time a customer is coming into a particular place or even the e-

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commerce

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coming online to make a purchase in exchange of some sort. And so with that in

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mind, I

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mean the one that's really coming into play for me, I mean health and beauty is

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one that

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you mentioned of being a good from a specialty retailer perspective. I actually

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think that

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some of the clothing retail and peril are doing well, particularly with the

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direct-to-consumer

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models that are coming into play. I think that's really changed the way in

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which retail

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is thought of and that's a bit of a hybrid if you will between e-commerce and

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brick

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and mortar. But the direct-to-consumer is like the

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Nike's and the Adidas of the world like that. I think a footwear as well

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because I'm a bit

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of a runner. They've really come into play in terms of utilizing the

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information that

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they've been collecting on their consumer programs. One of the examples that I

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touted

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back when I did with along with other colleagues at Bond Brand loyalty when we

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were doing the

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Lotu report was Nike and the Nike program in terms of the different types of

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interactions

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that they've created as experiences for the customers based upon the

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information they're

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using. And I always like using their West Hollywood store location example

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where they've

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taken the information in a geofence around that particular location and said,

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here let's

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collect all the data on all the people that we have in our profile and only

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keep the SKUs

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down to a SKU level, the color, the type, the fit, you know, the exact product

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in the

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store that is going to service the on a replenish or new products for that

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particular group

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set and make it very bespoke and customized to West Hollywood. The other part

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of that

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is West Hollywood very hard to find parking. So you know what we should do? We

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should

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have them allow them to order and advance on a replenish, have a garage door

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open,

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they drive in, we hand them the actual product and they drive back the store

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from a convenience

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and perspective. So utilizing information in a way that actually creates these

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experiences

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of ease and convenience and savings in time in a retail environment that

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typically isn't

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that strong oftentimes in terms of the traditional loyalty mechanics that come

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into play from

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a program perspective. I love those. You should actually, they should have a

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refreshment statement

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so they get their members to run in. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, it's actually

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the New

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York store. I'll let me keep on Nike as an example. The New York store has a

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fifth floor

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on top of four other floors which is dedicated to the the the loyalty program

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users and in

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instance in New York, if you're running during your lunch hour, you can order

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ahead, have

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all of your products in a locker run into the store, do a quick try on, grab

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those that

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you want, those that you don't, you leave and you literally walk out of the

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store because

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you've already paid online and you're not waiting in line. So I mean, they

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obviously

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can't replicate that in all the stores but that is certainly as a marquee store

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a certain

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way to literally run the store and run out with the products that you need.

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Love it. Love

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it. Love it. Love it. Wonderful. So my second question, if you could have, if

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you had to

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name one thing, what is the most difficult thing about launching a loyalty

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program?

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About launching the program. Interesting. So I come from a background of

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planning and

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analysis and the strategy side of the loyalty operations and mechanics of it.

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And for us,

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it was always the getting the the sponsor or the the actual brand to be

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convinced that

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you should be honest. So I'm talking about a coalition perspective to some

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degree. But

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what I'm talking about is getting your your estimates and the and the planning

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assumptions

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correct. Like that's the most challenging part because you go into the

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executive with

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this case that comes into play and says, Hey, we think we're going to get lifts

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and shifts

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of X and Y over period and we're going to get this big bump in year one, right?

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And then

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it's a question of all, but what about year two and year three? Oh, we're going

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to get,

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you know, same types of step changes over the period and the answer is no, it's

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more

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like a lawn curve curve actually, right? Like you get that big bump in the

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first year

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and go from there. And so I think one of the biggest challenges is making sure

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that the

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marketing communications and that initial foray is a realistic representation

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of what

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the consumer can expect on an ongoing basis because we tend to overload the

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onboarding

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experience in the acquisition side. And then we lever off and we and we don't

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have that

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same level of touch and and interest in the customer to some degree. And that's

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just because

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the program's trying to get this incremental element of sales that that's in

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play. And

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that's why you're putting the program in place. So I think, you know, to if I

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could sum it

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down into a quick sentence, the biggest challenge in initially launching a

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program is setting

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realistic expectations about what it is that you're going to have in terms of

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customer

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behavioral change. And then what's that that change on an ongoing basis? So

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what's realistic

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about it and setting those guidelines early. And it often starts with the

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initial assumptions

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that you put into your business plan. Amazing. Great. Love that answer. I often

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chat at,

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you know, workshops and so on when we're talking about loyalty and I said, the

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work starts

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after you've launched like it's hard enough to get to launch. But it's like an

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e-commerce

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store. You can't launch it and forget about it. It's every day of your life

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like you have

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to run. Yeah. And for those on the strategy side, I'm planning like you kind of

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fingers

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cross that you're going to assumptions, right? Because it is a bit of art and

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science at the

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end of the day. And and what one you what you experienced with one program, you

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will not

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experience with the other necessarily at least completely accurately to 100%.

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There might

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be variations in shades and degrees of it. But but otherwise sometimes and

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sometimes holistically

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something completely other the way because a macro impact has come into play,

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you know,

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gosh forbid we talk about the pandemic again. But that was something that you

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just couldn't

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foresee. And so that certainly would have had impact on anyone who was

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launching a program

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in late 2019 or early 2020. Yeah, of course, of course. Okay. My last question.

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So chapter

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84 of blind allty talks about data privacy. Okay. Do you think organizations

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are doing

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enough to make consumers feel comfortable with this? I think that that varies

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by which

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geography you're in and location you're in. I'm very much think about Europe as

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a kind

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of the the torch bear in Canada here. We have strong privacy and always have

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had strong

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privacy legislation and Europeans kind of came over the top and and built it

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and went

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even further. And I do like that they pushed to the point where the customer

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was the center

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of the piece of legislation, you know, I have the right to be forgotten and you

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have to

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do something about that. I think it some people think that it's a bit over

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bearing in terms

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of the economics that come into play. And that's maybe fair. But at the end of

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the day, that's

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around protecting the consumer and the ability to have choice and flexibility.

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And I think

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that's pretty savvy in terms of how that's structured and someone from the

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industry playing

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both sides of that coin from a consumer side as well as what's the impact, you

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know, to

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the businesses that have to operate in Europe. Then you flow through to the

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wild wild west

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as I call it to south me in the United States and and it's still a a opt in

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right? It's not

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it's it or sorry, it's an opt out of mentality. Yeah, opt out mentality. And

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then just north

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of the border, you've got opt in. And so, you know, you have this kind of as a

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global operator.

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I think that's a big challenge. And so the, you know, I think there's a mixed

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message here.

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Some are doing it very, very well. And that's a function of the legislation and

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the environments

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that they're operating in. And others are just not taking it to the forefront,

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particularly if

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you're using the United States example, if you're only operating the United

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States, the question

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would be, why should I? And tell consumers start to give me a reason to do it.

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And fortunately,

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there are some states that are coming in with the legislations shortly that

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will start to help to

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protect consumers and the privacy. But as a flag bearer for the industry, you

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know, wise marketing

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will be a little academy, we always hone on the side of always protect the

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consumer first. I mean,

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that is that really is the one banner that we need to have as multi marketers

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is to say we need to

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do better and to be on the, on the further right, if you will, in terms of

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right side of the proper

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side or the correct side, if you will, of privacy and not try to dangle in and

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walk that fine line.

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I don't think it's, I don't think it's a wise decision for us.

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It's so funny that you described the US as the world world world west because

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when I first

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came to South Africa 20 years ago, I used to describe the data environment here

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as the absolute

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world world west. And now it's, it's, it's completely tightened up and mirrors

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GDPR. So

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it's extremely structured and good for the consumer. But I never expected

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someone to describe the US

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as the world world. So yeah, in terms of privacy, that certainly is just be and

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it's changing. I

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get there's a positive here, like I'm not trying to be demolishing in terms of

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that. That's just the

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reality is, is it hasn't caught up and there hasn't been enough push, but it's

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starting to sway and

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and what will be good, I think for us as low to marketers is when all regions

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sort of get to that,

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that high level of standard of protecting the consumer. The reality is we're

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just not there.

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And I think those that are frustrated the most about it are those that are

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global operators because

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they are operating in certain markets where their competitors don't need to

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adhere to those things.

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And they need to because they take the higher road and they operate to that

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global standard.

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Yeah, you're wonderful. Great. Thank you, Erin. Fantastic. So you know my last

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question is who

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can I speak to next? That's the only predictable question in this interview.

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Yeah, and I had a hard time coming up with this because there's just such a

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great depth of talent

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and I'm going to be selfish and promote some Canadians if that's all right

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because it's a

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wonderful question for loyalty. And if you don't mind, I'm going to give you

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three and you can pick

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and choose like here's my top three or at least I shouldn't say top three

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because when people will

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get upset but certainly top three that have had influence and that I respect

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and admire as colleagues

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and have grown up within the loyalty industry over the years in Canada. The

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first is Gison Hahn

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who is actually at Cognitive Technologies right now. She's a Chief Strategy

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Officer there.

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But what I love about Gison is that we grew up at the Airmal's Camping or Camp

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Partomy and she was

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then shipped off to Brazil to work with Roberto Chate down to do the DOTS

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Coalition Rewards

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program. She came back and led the financial institution, the Bank of Montreal

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at Airmal's

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again here in Canada and then has migrated on into a great role at Cognitive

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Chief Strategy

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Officer and they do focus a lot right now on AI and able in terms of the

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loyalty programs that are

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in place. The second and I'll keep on the women trend because we do support

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women in loyalty 100%

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here at the Wise Market is Megan O'Neill who's a former colleague of mine at

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Bond Brand loyalty

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and she stepped in when I left the organization on the Bond report, the Lulte

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Report, the largest

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consumer global study that's out there. It's the most longitudinal study that

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exists. I highly

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recommend it for everybody and she stepped in and I also grew up with her

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previous organizations as

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well including Airmals and so just a real the depth and the quality and the st

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uteness of how

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she understands the marketplace and can take practical loyalty design

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principles and put them

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into place for brands is just amazing. So I speak highly of her and then last

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but not least rounding

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out the three is Matthew Seagram who is a good friend of mine and colleague as

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well through many

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years who started putting financial products services out of the Valley

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services onto the

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loyalty programs then from his Aimea days with me removed into taking on a role

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to build out

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the scene loyalty program which is our theatre program here along with one of

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the major banks

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Scotia Bank to now what is I would say the best and most effective coalition

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program that exists

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in Canada particularly from a lifestyle business and it includes our second

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largest

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grocer now as well too so so Matthew's pretty impressive and then he's just

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recently taken

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a role to move to the second largest credit union Meridian Bank and he's the

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chief digital

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officer there and so I'm just excited to see what he can do next to change the

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banking industry

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just like he did in terms of retail and entertainment in Canada.

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Wow amazing goodness I feel like it's my birthday I get three for one.

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Yeah it's a big one right and you're picking three with hard there's a whole

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long list as well too

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that the follow-up so I mean it's selfishly take all three can't wait to speak

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to just one of the

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three you let alone all three so Erin you're absolutely superstar really

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interesting responses

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I knew it would be so no surprises but thank you so so much. I appreciate

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Amanda thanks so much and be

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well.